Music Performance, Worship Leading, Saxophones, Things to Think About, More

Visit our Sites
Jump to the School of the Rock Home Page CreekDontRise.com Home Page Jump to our articles about music
Visit our Classic Train Songs Page View articles and other resources supporting independent Christian musicians.
Click to visit Paul's Music Page

It is currently Tue May 22, 2018 7:46 am


Note: Because we manage multiple music sites with some overlapping content, we have divided the discussion topics between the sites' discussion forums, depending on which site has the greater emphasis on a topic.

The discussion forums on this page relate to such topics as:

  • Vintage Saxophones
  • Contemporary Christian Music
  • Christian Living
  • Worship Leading
  • Bible Interpretation

Other Music topics, including acoustic instruments, music performance, music careers, songwriting, and train songs are discussed on the CreekDontRise.com discussion forum.

To join the discussions on this page, please use the SchoolOfTheRock.com forum signup page.
To visit the discussion forums on the CreekDontRise.com page, please click here.
To join the discussions on the CreekDontRise.com page, please use the CreekDontrise.com forum signup page.
Our Momma Don't 'Low newsletter includes music topics from all of our music web pages. Click here for more information.
To contact Paul offline, please use our SchoolOfTheRock.com contact page.

However you get in touch, we'll be very glad to hear from you - Paul Click to see Paul's music home page Click to contact Paul through this page. Click to see Paul's music page on Facebook Click to sign up for this discussion forum. Click to hear Paul's music on SoundCloud. Click to see Paul's music blog page Click to learn about our Momma Don't Low Newsletter. Click to see Paul's YouTube Channel. Click to see Paul's Twitter Page

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1 post ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:33 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 6:03 pm
Posts: 197
A reader writes:

I collect clarinets and saxophones, restore and or repair them as a hobby. I loved your page on stencil saxophones; it has helped me identify several early saxophones.

I picked up a "Winston" tenor sax. On eBay it was described as an E. M. Winston tenor sax. When it arrived I discovered that it was not an EM Winston but a plain Winston sax. On the neck next to the tightening clamp is a serial number, 98110002, and below that is a logo; a long herald horn that has a draped banner over it. In the center of the banner is a name that is hard to read. I believe it begins with a W and ends with an L. I tried goggling Winston saxophones, but couldn't find any information as to who built it. Looking at pictures of different Saxes, I came across a brand called Lauren. The key works, their location on the sax and cover guards are identical to mine. The only difference is the brace that connects the bell to the main frame. My brace is a bent piece of metal that;s bent into a short U with the top straight and not curved. This brace connects into two posts. The Lauren's brace has a circle in the center of the brace. I goggled the name Lauren, and found several vague references to either a French, Belgian or various Chinese manufactures.

Today I chanced upon a new saxophone called, Jean Paul, USA tenor TS-400 saxophone. It also is identical (with the exception of the holding brace) to my Winston and looks identical to the Laurens. Jean Paul has an office in FL and no info as to who made their instruments. Do you know of a Jean Paul manufacturing plant in FL? Or who might have made my Winston?

------------------------------------------

Our Reply:
I'm afraid when you get later than, say, 1970, my knowledge of sax history gets a little dim. Do any of the saxes in question have country of origin indicated? Even though the EM Winston horns I was first acquainted with came from a factory in Italy, I suspect that all of their products are made in China now. I don't know a brand that is JUST "Winston."

I assume that all of the horns you're describing follow Yamaha's Balanced-Action-Inspired YAS/YTS 61, 31, or 21 engineering. If that's the case, it's most likely that they "manufacturers" are just importers having copycat horns built wherever they are cheapest to build. That doesn't mean they're valueless, some of the copycats were made with good materials and quality control.

As manufacturers of student saxes moved their operations from the US and Europe to Japan, Korea, and eventually China, there came an era - which still exists - in which anyone who wants to negotiate with Chinese factories can get their own name put on a line of products. Even if the three horns you're comparing came from three different countries, it's entirely possible that they came from the same molds. Or clones of the same molds sold to other companies as a side business - theft of design was a common practice in 1980s and 1990s Japanese contract factories. And it's almost universal in China today.

Unless you determine that the horns are superior to the average name-brand student horn coming out of Asia today, they might not have any particular value or even be traceable.

Sorry that's not an answer. The 1920s and 1930s-era stencils are easier to identify since there were only a handful of factories capable of producing playable horns. Nowadays with automation, "borrowed" designs and tooling, and cheap labor, it's possible to set up up a saxophone factory just about anywhere there is electricity and running water.

BTW, my current soprano is a Sears-contracted 1990s Japanese "Lafayette" with no particular pedigree. But it plays as well as any of the name brand student horns I can afford. So I'm not saying the Italian and Asian knockoffs are all bad. Just that they might not exactly be collectible.

Sorry, that's a lot of work to confess my ignorance of the brands you describe, except to say that their resemblance may have more to do with "borrowed" designs and tooling than with a "single source."

Oh, and don't assume that ANYBODY's saxophones are built on this side of the Pacific, either, even if they say US in the brand name. Several "US" factories order their saxes prebuilt or mostly built in China then tweak or finish assembly here. Some of them are nice enough, so I'm not criticizing their business model or even their horns, just their implication that because an American technician had his or her hands on it at some point in the process it was "made in America." I'll believe it when I see American citizens turning those bells and pulling those tone-holes.

Best of luck,

Paul Race
SchoolOfTheRock.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1 post ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


To join the discussions on this page, please use the SchoolOfTheRock.com forum signup page.

To contact Paul offline, please use our SchoolOfTheRock.com contact page.

Paul Race playing his Longneck guitar. Click to go to Paul's music home page.A Note from Paul: Whatever else you get out of our pages, I hope you have a blessed day and figure out how to be a blessing to those around you as well.

And please stay in touch!

    - Paul Race Click to see Paul's music home page Click to contact Paul through this page. Click to see Paul's music page on Facebook Click to sign up for this discussion forum. Click to hear Paul's music on SoundCloud. Click to see Paul's music blog page Click to learn about our Momma Don't Low Newsletter. Click to see Paul's YouTube Channel. Click to see Paul's Twitter Page



All material, illustrations, and content of this web site is copyrighted 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006,
2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 by Paul D. Race. All rights reserved.




Musician's Friend Stupid Deal of the Day



Visit related pages and affiliated sites:
- Music -
Heartland-inspired music, history, and acoustic instrument tips.
Best-loved railroad songs and the stories behind them.
School Of the Rock Discussion Forums:  Saxophones, Christian Music, Worship, Things to Think About, and More. Creek Don't Rise Discussion Groups, Acoustic Instruments, Careers, Songwriting, Performance, More The Independent Christian Musician. Check out our article on finding good used guitars.
Carols of many countries, including music, lyrics, and the story behind the songs. X and Y-generation Christians take Contemporary Christian music, including worship, for granted, but the first generation of Contemporary Christian musicians faced strong, and often bitter resistance. Different kinds of music call for different kinds of banjos.  Just trying to steer you in the right direction. New, used, or vintage - tips for whatever your needs and preferences. Wax recordings from the early 1900s, mostly collected by George Nelson.  Download them all for a 'period' album. Explains the various kinds of acoustic guitar and what to look for in each.
Look to Riverboat Music buyers' guide for descriptions of musical instruments by people who play musical instruments. Learn 5-string banjo at your own speed, with many examples and user-friendly explanations. Explains the various kinds of banjos and what each is good for. Learn more about our newsletter for roots-based and acoustic music. Folks with Bb or Eb instruments can contribute to worship services, but the WAY they do depends on the way the worship leader approaches the music. A page devoted to some of Paul's own music endeavors.
With a few tools and an hour or two of work, you can make your guitar, banjo, or mandolin much more responsive.  Instruments with movable bridges can have better-than-new intonation as well. Musings about music-related subjects on SchoolOfTheRock.com Explains why Bluegrass pickers look for certain features. Contact Paul through this site's Contact page. Check out Paul's music page on Facebook. Jump to the School of the Rock Home Page



Click to trains that commemorate your team!

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group