Music Performance, Worship Leading, Saxophones, Things to Think About, More

Visit our Sites
Jump to the School of the Rock Home Page CreekDontRise.com Home Page Jump to our articles about music
Visit our Classic Train Songs Page View articles and other resources supporting independent Christian musicians.
Click to visit Paul's Music Page

It is currently Thu Oct 10, 2024 4:54 pm


Note: Because we manage multiple music sites with some overlapping content, we have divided the discussion topics between the sites' discussion forums, depending on which site has the greater emphasis on a topic.

The discussion forums on this page relate to such topics as:

  • Vintage Saxophones
  • Contemporary Christian Music
  • Christian Living
  • Worship Leading
  • Bible Interpretation

Other Music topics, including acoustic instruments, music performance, music careers, songwriting, and train songs are discussed on the CreekDontRise.com discussion forum.

To join the discussions on this page, please use the SchoolOfTheRock.com forum signup page.
To visit the discussion forums on the CreekDontRise.com page, please click here.
To join the discussions on the CreekDontRise.com page, please use the CreekDontrise.com forum signup page.
Our Momma Don't 'Low newsletter includes music topics from all of our music web pages. Click here for more information.
To contact Paul offline, please use our SchoolOfTheRock.com contact page.

However you get in touch, we'll be very glad to hear from you - Paul Click to see Paul's music home page Click to contact Paul through this page. Click to see Paul's music page on Facebook Click to sign up for this discussion forum. Click to hear Paul's music on SoundCloud. Click to see Paul's music blog page Click to learn about our Momma Don't Low Newsletter. Click to see Paul's YouTube Channel. Click to see Paul's Twitter Page

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:31 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 6:03 pm
Posts: 214
A reader from Holland writes:

Thanks for your interesting info on stencil saxophones.
I am considering to buy a silver-plated tenor saxophone marked with "American Triumph - Harry Pedler & sonc Inc. - Elkhart - Ind.", serial no. 21465. According to the seller this is a Buescher stencil, and I think it does look similar to a Buescher Aristocrat indeed. Horns marked with "Harry Pedler & sons" were supposedly made between 1935 and 1958, but I would like to get a more precise dating. Do you know of any serial number lists for these American Triumph saxophones made by Pedler & sons?
Any info would be much appreciated!

----------------------------------------

Thanks for getting in touch. As far as I can determine, Harry Pedler & Sons made their own instruments, including designs by Gus Buescher, who no longer worked for his namesake company. Pedler had long specialized in making woodwinds, including metal clarinets. Buescher had long specialized in making brass instruments. So how much engineering of your saxophone came from Pedler or Buescher is hard to say.

If it is silverplate, it is probably pre-war, as very few silverplate saxophones were built post-war. I could possibly tell you more if you could send me photographs.

This may not be important, but after the Buescher company started moving toward the designs that eventually resulted in the Aristocrat, they kept their "Tru-Tone" line going, selling student horns with brands like "Elkhart." By the late 1950s, that line was lacquered and included the left-hand pinky key setup of the Aristocrats. You can usually tell at a glance because BOTH the low B and Bb keys are on the left side of the bell, from the player's perspective.

So depending on whether Buescher was designing saxophones for Harry Pedler & Sons, or whether the Pedler company was buying "stencils" from the Buescher company, you may be looking at either:

- a unique design from one of the masters of saxophone design, who had been involved in the early experiments that led to the Aristocrat, or
- a relabeled True-Tone with some Aristocrat-inspired fingering upgrades.

Remember, even the True-Tone was a professional horn when it was first designed, so even that option would have some potential, as long as you used a good mouthpiece on the thing.

Hope this helps. I can tell you more if you can give me links to photos of the thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:27 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 6:03 pm
Posts: 214
After several more interactions, the reader sent this e-mail.

Update: I bought the instrument today!

I have extensively compared the instrument with some other old Americans: Conn 10M (1952), Buescher 400, Buescher True Tone, Martin comm. II. In my humble opinion (I must admit I'm not very experienced) it was most close to the 10M. I had both the American Triumph and the 10M at home for a couple of days and did blindfolded tests with two friends of mine who play professionally. The verdict was unanimously in favour of the American Triumph.

In the meantime, I have been trying to find more information. I found out that there is another Dutch guy who has the alto-version of this instrument:

https://forum.audiofreaks.nl/index.php?topic=39229.0

He writes that he discussed the instrument with a Dutch and an American professional (don't know who) and came to the conclusion that it seems to fit in somewhere between a True Tone and an Aristocrat, and that it was probably built between 1926 and 1932. This would contradict the fact that the name Harry Pedler & sons was used only between 1937 and 1958, but he argues that the engraving may have been done years later. Seems possible, but I don't know.

Anyhow, I thought you might be interested to hear about this. I'm very happy with the thing. I started playing saxophone only one and a half year ago, and so far I have been playing on a rented instrument (Aurora Classic, probably Chinese), so this is a big step forward!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


To join the discussions on this page, please use the SchoolOfTheRock.com forum signup page.

To contact Paul offline, please use our SchoolOfTheRock.com contact page.

Paul Race playing his Longneck guitar. Click to go to Paul's music home page.A Note from Paul: Whatever else you get out of our pages, I hope you have a blessed day and figure out how to be a blessing to those around you as well.

And please stay in touch!

    - Paul Race Click to see Paul's music home page Click to contact Paul through this page. Click to see Paul's music page on Facebook Click to sign up for this discussion forum. Click to hear Paul's music on SoundCloud. Click to see Paul's music blog page Click to learn about our Momma Don't Low Newsletter. Click to see Paul's YouTube Channel. Click to see Paul's Twitter Page



All material, illustrations, and content of this web site is copyrighted © 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006,
2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 by Paul D. Race. All rights reserved.




Musician's Friend Stupid Deal of the Day



Visit related pages and affiliated sites:
- Music -
Heartland-inspired music, history, and acoustic instrument tips.
Best-loved railroad songs and the stories behind them.
School Of the Rock Discussion Forums:  Saxophones, Christian Music, Worship, Things to Think About, and More. Creek Don't Rise Discussion Groups, Acoustic Instruments, Careers, Songwriting, Performance, More The Independent Christian Musician. Check out our article on finding good used guitars.
Carols of many countries, including music, lyrics, and the story behind the songs. X and Y-generation Christians take Contemporary Christian music, including worship, for granted, but the first generation of Contemporary Christian musicians faced strong, and often bitter resistance. Different kinds of music call for different kinds of banjos.  Just trying to steer you in the right direction. New, used, or vintage - tips for whatever your needs and preferences. Wax recordings from the early 1900s, mostly collected by George Nelson.  Download them all for a 'period' album. Explains the various kinds of acoustic guitar and what to look for in each.
Look to Riverboat Music buyers' guide for descriptions of musical instruments by people who play musical instruments. Learn 5-string banjo at your own speed, with many examples and user-friendly explanations. Explains the various kinds of banjos and what each is good for. Learn more about our newsletter for roots-based and acoustic music. Folks with Bb or Eb instruments can contribute to worship services, but the WAY they do depends on the way the worship leader approaches the music. A page devoted to some of Paul's own music endeavors.
With a few tools and an hour or two of work, you can make your guitar, banjo, or mandolin much more responsive.  Instruments with movable bridges can have better-than-new intonation as well. Musings about music-related subjects on SchoolOfTheRock.com Explains why Bluegrass pickers look for certain features. Contact Paul through this site's Contact page. Check out Paul's music page on Facebook. Jump to the School of the Rock Home Page



Click to trains that commemorate your team!

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group